I’ve never admitted this publicly but the truth is, I hate SEO.

That’s a strong word. Maybe it’s not actually hate. Dislike, disdain, not for me! Not for my business.

That’s why I wanted to talk to Meg Casebolt, SEO strategist, podcaster and author of the new book, Social Slowdown, 

Early in the conversation, I dropped that bomb on her and was very curious to see what she would say.

Would she defend search because that’s her thing? Or would she agree with my rationale not to focus on search?

Listen here (and below) to find out…

 

The baby step Meg suggested is to start with empathy. Put yourself in the mind of your ideal client or best prospect. Ask yourself: what are they needing? What’s happening in their life that will lead them to find you? What words are they using to describe their need?

This sounds easy but it’s not! Whether for search or not, it’s important for marketing.

If you like this, you'll love....

...a totally different episode Meg and I also recorded for her podcast.

Listen to it here

Read the complete transcript of the Marketing Mentor Podcast Episode #486 here

Ilise benun

Hi there. This is ilise benun, your Marketing Mentor, and this is the podcast for you if, and only if, you are ready to leave the feast or famine syndrome behind. And I mean for good.

I've never admitted this publicly, but the truth is I hate SEO. I know that's a strong word. Maybe it's not actually hate. Dislike, disdain, contempt ... not for me, not for my business.

That's why I wanted to talk to Meg Casebolt of Love at First Search, who is a search specialist, an SEO search engine optimization specialist.

Early in the conversation, I dropped that bomb on her and I was very curious to see what she would say. Would she defend search because that's her thing or would she agree with my rationale for why I don't focus on search? Listen to find out.

Hello Meg, welcome to the podcast.

Meg Casebolt

Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here with you.

Ilise benun

Me too. Please introduce yourself.

Meg Casebolt

Hi there. My name is Meg Casebolt. My pronouns are she, her, hers, and I am the founder of Love at First Search, which is an SEO marketing firm, which basically means that we help our clients who are typically solopreneurs, small businesses, small agencies to show up in search results like Google, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and then to bring people into their world and convert those new finders into lead subscribers and sales.

Ilise benun

And just give us a little of your background, your history. How long have you been in business? How long have you been doing this? How has it evolved?

Meg Casebolt

Sure. So I have been in business for a decade now. I started my business ... I had worked for nonprofits for almost a decade. I was with them for about eight years. I worked in the architectural field doing marketing there for a couple of years. And then I got married, got pregnant, and looked at my income and looked at the cost of childcare and went: Hmm, something's got to give there.

So I had had all this experience in marketing and I started a design studio helping people build their own, well, to build websites for them, not to build their own.

And so I built websites mostly for solopreneurs. Kind of always been in this space of working with small businesses and nonprofits.

And I would build these beautiful websites for clients and they would say, “Great, this is awesome. Where are my clients? Why aren't people finding me?”

And I had to figure out, you know, how do you balance building the actual website? Designing and you know ... the brand colors and the fonts and the copywriting and the images and all the things that go into web design. And also optimizing it so that way Google can send new people to these websites.

And I couldn't figure out how to balance it. And I took that query to a mastermind of designers that I worked with and was participating in. And I said, “How do all of you balance this?”

And they said, “Actually, we don't. We wish that we could just outsource it to an SEO person, but we don't have anyone we trust.”

And so I made the decision to become the SEO person that they outsource to that people trust.

It was sort of a Blue Ocean moment of: Hey, here's 15 people that I'm in the room with, who I trust, who need this service, that I think I'd be really good at, that I'm already trying to figure out.

So that was how I got started with Love at First Search—was as a very quiet, kind of silent partner for web designers.

Ilise benun

And that's an example of what we call “listening to the market.”

Meg Casebolt

Yes.

Ilise benun

So good for you. Kudos to you.

Meg Casebolt

I knew you'd appreciate that part of the story.

Ilise benun

Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm curious, what is it about all those other SEO people or companies that are not trustworthy? What's not to trust?

Meg Casebolt

I don't know that it's necessarily not trustworthy. I think it might be that they're not the world's best communicators. Or they aren't necessarily clear about what it is that their client needs to receive from them in order for it to make sense to them.

Because, you know Google's algorithm changes a lot. Search engine optimization is constantly evolving, just like any sort of marketing or any sort of strategy. Well, maybe not networking. But any sort of technology is evolving all the time.

And there seems to be a bit of a disconnect sometimes between what the tools that SEO people use spits out at them and what the client needs in order to turn it into something that they can actually read and implement.

And so regularly, I will have clients who come to me after having worked with another SEO organization or agency that they say, “Well, I got all these audits and I didn't know what they meant, and no one explained it to me, and so I didn't do anything with it.”

So in a lot of ways, I feel sometimes like I'm a translator from the robot-speak of these tools that will talk about ‘keyword difficulty’ and ‘search volume’ and ‘cost per click’ and all these sort of metrics. And what we do at Love at First Search is translating it into: Okay, here's what your client needs and here's how you can set yourself up so that you show up in those search results when it is that they need those answers to their questions.

Ilise benun

I'll just say that I studied language in college, Spanish and then French, and I never did anything formal with the languages and the degrees that I earned, but I have always felt from the very beginning that I am translating business language for creatives.

Meg Casebolt

I like that. See, I really, I call SEO “acronyms.” I refer to it loosely as “nerd speak.”

Ilise benun

Interesting. So we have that in common.

Meg Casebolt

My dad was an electrical engineer. I grew up in the nerd-speak space. I'm fluent in nerd speak.

Ilise benun

But I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't think I've told you this yet, Meg, but I hate search.

Meg Casebolt

I'm not surprised.

Ilise benun

And I'll tell you why. And in a way, this is related to what I do, obviously, and the Simplest Marketing Plan—which is all about not waiting for people to find you, but going out and choosing who you want to help, basically.

And so within that context, I have always felt—and I've actually had this experience as well—that whoever happens to find me because they're Googling is probably not usually—sometimes there are exceptions to the rule—but not usually my best prospect. And not usually the person I would pursue.

And worse yet I would say, I offer a free 30-minute mentoring session on my website and inevitably the people—and I ask in the form, when you fill out the form, "how did you find me?”—when people say, “Google,” those are the people who stand me up, who do not show up.

And I think it makes total sense because on the day that they're Googling, they found me, I'm sure they found two or three other people, maybe more, and signed up for their free consultations. And my schedule's pretty busy, so I'm not going to talk to you for a couple of weeks. And by then, you probably don't need it anymore. I don't take it personally. But I just find that the people who find me through Google generally are not good leads. What would you say to that?

Meg Casebolt

I would say that that is totally fine. I think that, especially you, ilise, because of your framework and the way that you work with people and the approach that you take to things, I think that to an extent, the idea even of Marketing Mentor as a brand is maybe not the most search-friendly idea, because search is so specific in its approach. And if you were going to come out and say, “I teach people to get their clients on LinkedIn, and I want you to update your LinkedIn bio to follow this three-step process.”

You know, search can be very tactical. It can be very technical. And it can be very specific. And your approach is so much more comprehensive and holistic to that, that it doesn't necessarily always fit the algorithm of search.

Ilise benun

And that makes sense to me. And one thing that I found very interesting ... So, I've been in business 35 years. I've had this name of the company at least 20—Marketing Mentor—maybe a little less than 20 years. And when I came up with it originally, it was not a search term. But recently it has become a search term.

Apparently people, it occurs to them to search for a marketing mentor. But when they do—in fact, I have one of these calls scheduled tomorrow—it's someone within a company, in a big corporation usually, who has been promoted to do marketing and knows nothing about marketing, and therefore needs a marketing mentor. Those are not my ideal people at all.

Meg Casebolt

No, those are absolutely the wrong people for you.

Ilise benun

Which is why I don't mind when they stand me up. It's still, I just find it really interesting, like what ‘marketing mentor’ means to different people. And therefore, again from a search perspective, it's not helpful.

Meg Casebolt

And I think it comes back to what you were saying about language and knowing the language of who it is that you're trying to reach and the words that they use. Because, when you first came up with this, when you purchased the domain years ago—not even came up with the idea, but when you put your money where your mouth was and said: “This is how I'm going to position myself”—that wasn't the way that people were using that language. And the language around it has evolved.

And so maybe you're still going to get traffic for that term because it is your brand name, because you are going to rank for it because you have that authority in that term.

But you can definitely come out on your website and find ways to stop the tire kickers from booking calls with you and say, “I am here for small businesses and solopreneurs.” And so that way, when those folks come from corporate having just gotten those promotions, they're going to go: Eh, not for me.

Right? They're being repelled by your copy in that same moment.

Ilise benun

Ideally. But some people will not be repelled. I'll tell you that. I had a guy earlier this week; he picked my first thing on a Monday-morning slot, which happened to be open. It was on Sunday night, he picked it. And when I looked him up, he is selling leather wallets from somewhere ...

Meg Casebolt

But you only work with people with services. Why would you ... ?

Ilise benun

Exactly. And I had to tell him that, “I'm sorry. This is not going to be a good use of your time or mine because if you didn't notice, here's who I actually work with.”

And he was very understanding and we didn't end up having the call, after all. But I just find it really interesting that sometimes people will not be repelled.

Meg Casebolt

Well, it's kind of like when you go to a networking event in real life and they can't tell that you're bored and they just keep telling you about like the mushrooms in their backyard. And you're like: Oh my God, are we still having this conversation? Some people do not pick up hints.

And so, if that were something where it were constantly happening to you, ilise, I'd be like: Okay, maybe we need to rethink the positioning on your website. But maybe we also need to have an application process into your consults.

Ilise benun

No, there is.

Meg Casebolt

Yeah. So making sure that you're screening people so that way you're not spending your time on people that aren't a good fit. But that's the thing about search too, is we can be specific about who it is that we're trying to serve, but anybody can still find us. Anybody can still engage with us. And that, to an extent, that's a good thing. But you do have to be a little bit careful about how open you are with your availability.

Ilise benun

I agree. And just a little sidetrack, since you brought up the networking and people basically not being able to read cues in networking, I know for a fact that a lot of people, including some of you listening, do not like networking because you know there are those people out there who are going to talk and talk and talk, and you don't know how to get out of a conversation. That happens. But that's not a reason not to network, right Meg?

Meg Casebolt

Correct. It means you need to find a way to politely extract yourself from a conversation and have a strategy going into it. I'm not a marketing or I'm not a networking strategist, but I definitely have found ways to remove myself from a conversation, even if it's not networking. Even if it's, you know, I go to the soccer game that my kid's at, and somebody who's standing next to me wants to talk about their kid's rash. I'm like: Ooh, okay, not a nurse. Dunno anything about eczema. How could I get out of this?

It's going to happen no matter what, networking or not. You're going to have to engage with humans at some point.

I know, especially as a search person, I work with a lot of introverts who don't necessarily want to have those live conversations, but that can be a choice. That can be part of your business model.

But if you're going to run a service business, which I know most of your people are doing, ilise, most of the listeners to this are probably service business people, you're probably going to have to have a conversation with people at some point. That's just sort of the nature of the beast of the business model of service delivery.

Ilise benun

Ya. Agreed.

Meg Casebolt

And sales is ... if you're going to work with people one on one, if you're going to work with people in a group, not everything can be automated. So you can use something like search to get people to discover who it is that you are. But at the end of the day, you might still have to have a real-life conversation.

Ilise benun

So let's talk about ... there are two things I want to make sure we cover. One is: who is search best for? And then, I know that you have a new book out, new-ish book out, about social media, and so I want to make the connection between search and social media and the message in your book.

Meg Casebolt

Okay, so it all fits together very well. So thank you for giving me an idea of the direction that we're going.

Ilise benun

Good.

Meg Casebolt

Search works really well for people who solve problems that are not even time sensitive but that have specific needs at specific points in time.

So a couple of years ago my basement flooded. And I wasn't like: Hmm, let me sit down and wait for a Facebook ad to talk about whether or not my basement has flooded.

I went to Google and I was like: What do I do? Should I not go down there because maybe the electrical will shock me and I'll die? Or is this something where I can go check out the sump pump.

Like, when there's a specific problem that you're solving, then you can go to search.

That does not always need to be something that is really tangible, like there is standing water in my basement. Sometimes it is: I'm really tired of dieting and I just want to learn how to not gain a ton of weight and also not diet. Or, I am thinking about getting back into dating and I don't know where to get started with it. Or, I want to remodel my house, but I don't know what the budget is supposed to be.

Sometimes it's not necessarily your house is on fire and you need something right this minute, but you're aiming to make some sort of change in your life.

Ilise benun

Or, I mean, just speaking to the people who I know are listening, like if you need a logo, is that the kind of problem that is easily solved or helpfully solved with search?

Meg Casebolt

Yeah, it can be. And especially if you ... let's say that you are the designer who wants to be found for people who need a logo. This is a really good opportunity to be found for either your specific niche or your geography or to educate people with your content.

So if you are helping people with their logo design, you probably want to use the words “logo design” on your website somewhere.

It feels obvious, but sometimes people will try to get really clever and be like: We're going to create your custom visual identity.

And that might not be the language that their audience would be looking for when they think that they need a logo.

And so you might want to include things like “Logo design in Connecticut,” because you know that people want to work with you locally, even if you don't actually work with them in person. Sometimes people feel like they want to work with somebody who's nearby.

You might want to do logo design for sports organizations because you have that experience, and therefore you can sort of have a shortcut into that conversation that you've done that work before. And you have a portfolio where you can show all of the sports organizations that you've done logos for.

Maybe you want to have some content on your website about your logo design packages. So that way when people are thinking that they need a logo, but actually they do need a full visual identity, they do need a full brand, not just the logo. Maybe you want to have some information on your website about logo design for a new business versus a redesign and how that process is different. Right?

So, knowing what it is that you are selling, you also need to know what it is that the end client needs from you. Or what they already know versus what you need to teach them along the way.

Ilise benun

Okay. Let me just interrupt you there because I have a feeling you're going in this direction. I just want to frame it a little bit. Which is, one of the hardest things I think it is for people, humans, to do, is to get out of our own mindset and into someone else's mindset. And part of the challenge of marketing—all different marketing but especially SEO, it seems to me—is forgetting how you think about what you do, and finding out or learning or somehow switching your mindset to how others—the people who need you—think about what you do. Right?

Meg Casebolt

Totally. I think there's so much empathy that is required to do this. And as an industry, I think that search gets boiled down into like: Oh, well, just go find the spreadsheet with the keywords.

But just going into Fiverr and asking someone to find you keywords that are related to your industry or going on to ChatGPT and saying: “What should I have this be?” ... there's not a lot of human connection in that.

And I think that that's something that I talk about a lot. I'm actually working on my next book, which is tentatively titled “Search Empathy Optimization,” because I think that so much of what we do in search is not just go find these words and put them into these places in these strategic locations on your website, but like, you really do need to put yourself into the mindset of the people that you're trying to serve and go: What is it that this person needs? Why do they need it right now? What is the problem that I'm solving with this? And what is the language that they would use that is specific to this circumstance or this audience or this problem?’

Because it's not as simple as ... you know, sometimes it is simple. Sometimes it’s: I need a haircut and I want somebody who is in my state that I don't have to drive really far to get to.

Sometimes it is that simple. But when we're actually talking through the problems, maybe it's not: I need a haircut.

Maybe it's: I’m growing out my grays and my hair is curly and I want somebody to help me with both of those components.

It's not just who's the closest to me, but who has that life experience. Who has that professional training for what the outcome is that I need. It's not always as simple as: What's the closest pizza place?

And that's where the empathy becomes really, really important is, what is the problem? The person that is searching is a human, even if the algorithms that we're playing with are not.

Ilise benun

Right. And those algorithms are written by humans for the most part, aren't they? Or are they not?

Meg Casebolt

Umm, there's a lot of machine learning going on now.

Ilise benun

Okay, so scratch that.

Meg Casebolt

But the original algorithms were. And so there's also some bias in all of these algorithms because of the fact that they're written by humans. And so we have to think about that too. I'm not going to get on my search-algorithm-bias soapbox right now, though. I'll nip that one in the bud.

Ilise benun

Sounds good. So let's talk about your book then. What's it called?

Meg Casebolt

My book is called “Social Slowdown.” It's all about how to manage your marketing in a way that is sustainable versus feeling like you're on that social-media-content hamster wheel and you have to post all the time, and it can really impact your mental health.

So I wanted to talk about the mental health ramifications of feeling “on” all the time, as well as some alternatives of ways that you can market your business, including or not including social media.

Ilise benun

And it's a very interesting idea, which we'll come right back to, but I first am curious, like, what's the connection between social media and search, then, for you? How did this happen?

Meg Casebolt

For me personally? Well, part of it was marketing for my own business and recognizing the limitations that social media had for me—because even though I was a search specialist, I still felt like I had to show up on social. I still felt like I had that time.

Ilise benun

Why?

Meg Casebolt

Because I'm human and that's where people were, and I didn't want to feel like I was missing out, because FOMO is a real thing.

And because I was on social media, I was being served content that told me that social media was the solution. And because I was being told by business coaches and other marketing professionals that I needed to have a free Facebook group, and I needed to go on Livestream, and I needed to teach people where they were hanging out.

I don't want to make it seem like: Oh, I was brainwashed to believe this. Or, I was gaslit to believe this.

But I think that if you're on social media, then you're being fed messages that social media is the way to do it because the people who are on social media are talking about how well they're doing on social media. You're in an echo chamber.

You know, I built a big part of my marketing outreach on social media by encouraging people to join a free Facebook group. This was probably about five years ago. And over time, I looked at the metrics and realized that people who were in my Facebook group were getting lots of free value from me, but they were not actually buying any of my services or products.

And then it became a big expense because I had a team of people who were helping me to grow my Facebook group and my Instagram following, and none of those people gave me any money. And I started to really question what it was that I was doing in terms of my expenses.

And so after I looked at the metrics for that, looked at the fact that none of my sales were coming from social media, they were all coming from email marketing and from going on other people's podcasts, I shut down my free Facebook group, and I forgot to post on social media because I didn't have team members who were going: “Oh, people are talking in the Facebook group. Oh, we need to post our Wednesday poll and our Memorial Day flag.” All of those things you feel like you have to do when you're in the space.

So I forgot to post on social media. I went a couple months after I realized it and I didn't see a decrease in my lead generation when I stopped posting on social media. If anything, I saw about the same coming in because I was still doing content marketing and I was still doing relationships and referrals. I was still connecting with people, just not on those specific platforms.

And so that was my own experience with social media.

But then to answer part two of your question—which is how does this relate to search?—it kind of doesn't. They are two very different strategies. One is outbound marketing, which is let me go to where people are and connect with them in that space. And one of them is more inbound marketing, where it is let me create content for when people need me. They can go out and find it.

So they're very different strategies. But however, I work with a lot of small businesses. I work with a lot of solopreneurs. I work with people who have limited time and resources who don't necessarily have a full marketing team to do everything that they want.

And what the objection that I kept hearing to when I would say, “Let me teach you how to get new people to find you through search” was, “Oh, I don't have time because I'm so busy posting on social media.”

And there was very much a short-term approach to marketing, which is somebody told me that I have to post on social five times a day and therefore I don't have time to do something that can be found for the next five years.

So that's where they tie together—is just the limited resources that we have to be able to invest in this.

Ilise benun

And how much of your clientele or income comes through people finding you on search?

Meg Casebolt

Kind of hard to track it back. I would say probably 20 to 25% of my income comes from search.

Ilise benun

Because I would think you also have to practice what you preach, right, like I do, to a certain extent.

Meg Casebolt

Yes. And I think also search is not always, you know ...

One of the things that I like about your approach, ilise, is that it's comprehensive and you can't necessarily track every single lead that comes in because it's like: Oh, I made this connection with somebody and I did the outreach, but then I did that. I followed up with them in content marketing. I kept in touch with them, and maybe they've been in my world for a long time and I can't necessarily track that first point of acquisition.

So search, I think, goes beyond just what are the words that you're putting on your website.

If somebody listens to this conversation that you and I are having right now, and they're like: Oh, I should go find Meg, how did they find you? Did they find this podcast that you are creating in Apple Podcast, because you and I are having a conversation about SEO and you're going to put that into your podcast ... ?

And when you put a link from your website show notes onto my website, then that also impacts my search results because by being a guest on your podcast, by getting a link from your website to mine, that's a referral situation. But it also helps my domain authority for my SEO because you are vouching for me.

So I think that a lot of times the ways that we approach our marketing is not nearly as cut and dry and easy to track as we think it is.

Ilise benun

Totally.

Meg Casebolt

I just sort of tiptoed around the answer to that question. I dunno if I answered it.

Ilise benun

It's perfect. It's perfect.

Meg Casebolt

It's not always as straightforward as we think it is.

Ilise benun

No, definitely not. It's usually not.

Meg Casebolt

Especially when you get those inquiries where people ... I bet you do the same thing; you even said, people will find you on Google because they have filled out the form that says “I found you on Google.“ But people don't remember where they heard about us.

Ilise benun

Yeah, definitely. Alright, so we just have a few more minutes, but I do want to talk a little bit more about the book.

So the book is about social media. And first, I want to put social media in the context of my framework, because a lot of my listeners know about my framework, The Simplest Marketing Plan. And there's no social media in it per se. But I see social media as one of several different ways that you can disseminate and distribute high-quality, bat-signal content.

And I would even go further to say that LinkedIn is one of the places I most recommend disseminating your content.

And I've recently discovered, realized, that a lot of people don't think of LinkedIn as social media. So just talk about social media and the social media slowdown. But kind of talk a little bit in context about LinkedIn as well, if you would.

Meg Casebolt

Okay. So I would say to your point, LinkedIn, I think, is a really good networking and content-delivery platform for people who are working in the B2B space where they would want to connect with other people there.

It may not be the right choice for everyone, but given that you're working with service providers, it is a place that makes a lot of sense.

I think that LinkedIn is a little bit different from some of the other social media platforms—especially some of the more discovery-based social media platforms like TikTok or, oh God, I was about to say “Twitter,” but now it's X—because you already have a built-in audience in your LinkedIn of people who are familiar with you.

So if you are creating a video on TikTok, and it goes viral, you have no idea who that's going to be in front of. Versus LinkedIn, your water cooler has already been connected.

I think LinkedIn people also don't think of social media quite in the same way because the monetization mechanism is very different, where if you go on anything owned by Meta, if you're going on Facebook or Instagram, you are being served advertising. If you're not paying for it, then you're the product. You are being packaged up and you are being sold out to advertisers. And your eyeballs are the product on Facebook.

Whereas on LinkedIn, that platform is being underwritten by paid job postings—which you may not see when you're on the platform if you're not there to look for a job.

Ilise benun

Right.

Meg Casebolt

So I think it can feel a little bit less like ... It feels more like a connection with people that you already know or that networking space where there are people that you know. They feel like real people versus brands—which can be more common on the other social networking. So does that answer your question around the difference between them?

Ilise benun

Very interesting. Yeah. And so your main message of the book is: you don't have to do all the things?

Meg Casebolt

You don't have to do all the things.

I also, I did think of one more key differential between LinkedIn and some of the other social platforms, which is that I think LinkedIn is built for sharing content and for connecting with others versus Facebook, Instagram, X, TikTok—they're entertainment platforms primarily. They're not meant for connection.

So I would say, yeah, the key thesis of the book, the key thesis of the podcast that turned into the book, is: you don't have to be everywhere.

Figure out where your people are. Figure out what your message is. Figure out who is already in front of your people. And then, figure out how to get yourself in front of them.

And if search is the thing that you want to do, then maybe you don't also need to be on every single platform.

If you don't want to do search ... like, ilise, you do really well without needing to have an intentional search strategy. That's okay because you have all of these other marketing mechanisms in place; these levers that you can pull and say: I have a good referral network. I have this targeted outreach in place.

You know, figuring out what works for it, not just: What is the checklist of marketing things that I need to do?

But thinking through: How do I want to spend my time? How do I want to spend my money? What resources do I have? What works really well for my brain? What works well for my life? How do I want to feel when I do my marketing?’

Makes a huge difference in how you bring yourself to it.

I love being a guest on podcasts. I would do this all day long if I could, but I also work with a lot of people who are afraid to put themselves out there in real time in a conversation like this. So that's not the marketing strategy for them, even if it would work really well for their business model. If you're not comfortable doing it, find a different strategy.

Ilise benun

Or I agree with you, but I would also say: “Maybe reframe some of the things that actually do work if you do it with the right attitude.” And that's kind of one of the underlying messages of the Simplest Marketing Plan, also.

Meg Casebolt

Yes, and that's definitely an ilise approach to it. My approach is like: You hate that thing? Find something else.

And you're like: No, you can still do it. Just think about how you can make yourself hate it a whole lot less.

Ilise benun

Or let's expand the way you think about it because it may not be the thing you think it is. That's why I often say to people, “I'm trying to change the way you think because the way you've thought about it for all these years may be very narrow and there are other ways to think about things.”

Meg Casebolt

Yes, I agree with that. And there may be ways to do it that don't have to feel ... like, I love going on podcasts. I don't love pitching myself for podcasts. Great. I have a team member who does some of that for me. We agree on it. And then they're the ones ... Sheena's the one that actually sends all of my emails ... okay. Finding a way to make the systems work for you.

Ilise benun

Exactly. All right. The question that I always ask at the end of the podcast is, is there a baby step in all the things we've talked about that you would suggest listeners take in the direction of anything that we've talked about?

Meg Casebolt

I think for me, the baby step is that empathy component—that thought process around not just what is it that I do, but why is it that would seek out what it is that I do? What are they going through in their life? What are they going through in their business growth? What is the change that they might want to make sometime in the not-so-distant future that would lead them to find me?

Whether they're finding you in search or on social or they're asking around for a referral, that part's not quite as important as starting to think about why? Why do they need to care about me? What's in it for them if they work with me? There's my baby step.

Ilise benun

Love it. Excellent. All right. Tell people where they can find your book, and you, and anything else you want to share.

Meg Casebolt

Sure. So you can find me over, well, you can find the agency over at Loveatfirstsearch.com, if you want to talk more about search engine optimization. If you want to listen to the podcast or read the book that inspired the podcast, no, other way, listen to the podcast that inspired the book, you can head over to socialslowdown.com and go from there.

Ilise benun

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Meg. I have a feeling there will be a part two.

Meg Casebolt

Okay, sounds good. I'll look forward to it.

Ilise benun

What a fun conversation. There will definitely be a part two, and we'll have to hear more about Meg's book, “The Social Slowdown,” but go buy it, check it out, see what you think.

Now the baby step that Meg suggested is to start with empathy. Put yourself in the mind of your ideal client or your best prospect, and ask yourself what are they needing? What's happening in their life that will lead them to find me? What words are they using to describe their need? This sounds easy, but it's not. And whether you do it for search or not, it's really important from a marketing perspective.

So if you want to build a thriving business on your own terms, the first step is to sign up for my Quick Tips. Once you're on the site, you'll find lots more resources, including my Simplest Marketing Plan. So enjoy and I'll see you next time.